Distinct Delete and Remove for files and relations

Feature Requests
, ,
1

WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND?

One of the problems with Anytype’s interface is “deleting” files or relations.

If I create a relation on an object and then want to delete it, there’s a “Delete” button.
How cool is that? No, because it doesn’t delete it, it simply removes it from the object (collection, page,…).
If I really want to delete it, I’ll have to go to the library.

Same thing for a file.
Hop I drop an image or a pdf into my page. Oops, wrong one! There’s a “Delete” button.
You know the story… no, it doesn’t delete my file, it removes it from my page.
If I want to delete, I’ll have to find my file some other way in order to delete it (and then delete it from the trash, a compulsory additional action).

A demo for those who discover that…
demobugAnytype

We’re back to the fault of having 10 steps for an action where usually only one or two are needed.

HOW COULD IT BE DONE?

  • Rename the “Delete” button by “Remove”, because it’s what it does.
    A misleading name is always negative
    I bet some users don’t know that.

  • For relation, always no “Delete” button on the relation page :frowning:
    But there are another FR for that.

  • Add a “Delete” button, a true one, which will actually delete a relationship or a file. All in one click!
    (There’s still the trashing of files, which I find annoying, but I understand that some people insist on it, so I can live with it without asking for a “delete permanently” button).

3

I hope this will be taken into account one day, as soon as there’s too much cleaning to do it’s unmanageable (only solution: make disposable spaces, at least it’s easy to remove ^^).

4

Another older FR linked to this problem :

5

Absolutely agree! Correct naming is essential.

The context menu for an image on a page for example offers “Delete” although it can only be “Removed”. No damage can be done in this case, but the user does not learn to distinguish between Delete and Remove.
I remember that the crucial difference between Delete and Remove caused me problems when I started using Anytype.

6

Could you please elobrate what you meant by that? I want to clean up my space I had no idea that the image attachments in my pages were not actually going to the trash

7

There seem to have been some changes (which I’m discovering here). Or not :exclamation_question_mark:

On a image into an object, the contextual menu propose now “Move to bin”.
When you use it, image is not anymore in your object.
But it’s not deleted nor in bin (just tested with the latest version). So, just “unlinked” or remove from this object.

To really delete an image, you have to :

  • go into you image as object
  • menu → Move to Bin (who really does it)
  • Move to your bin, delete it

I invite you to try, create a page, add an new image into it and try to “Move to bin” :slight_smile:

8

totally agree! We need this feature.
And I don’t understand that a image pasted into a page donesn’t count as a link.
so what it is?
I saw people discussed about this two years ago, but the problem is still here :melting_face:

9

Because it’s an image block.

Why it’s not a link?
You can, of course, insert a link to an image on a page. In this case, you have three options:
a text link block
a bookmark block
an unlinked text block.

It makes perfectly sense that you cannot delete an image on a page, because it could be used elsewhere too.
I don’t see any ‘feature’ that needs to be requested, just a small correction: the option in the context menu for an image block should be named ‘Remove block’ instead of ‘Delete block’ (in all languages). Everything else seems to be working fine for me. (v. 0.47.17-beta)

10

But that’s not a good reason.
Because the image exists outside of the Page.
You can insert it (or link it, or embed it, however you call it) into as many Pages as you want – the image itself exists only once in your Space, no matter how many Pages have included it.
Therefore one could say, that an image is an Object, similar to all other Objects.
And therefore, if a Page has the image “in it”, it is not really “in it”. It’s only linked, but shown as embedded.

And because in truth it exists outside (not in the Page) and is only linked, Anytype should handle that as a normal Link.

  • It’s maybe my most painful missed feature, that the user can’t follow these links in the direction from image to the Pages that include it)!!!

– If an image is open as Object and I press Ctrl+o to have a look into the Flow, I would expect to see in the Flow’s right panel all the Pages and Notes etc. that use this image!

.

Nope, it doesn’t make “perfectly sense”. Although you are right, that other Objects could use this image, you make the wrong conclusion.
For all other Objects, the Flow shows all Links from and to this Object. That means, Anytype KNOWS if Objects have such Links!
It could know it in the same way also for images.
And if an Image has incoming Link-connections from other Pages, Anytype could simply warn if the user tries to delete the image.
The warning message could have then a button: “Show Flow” so that the user can easily inspect the case.

Each and every day I think so, since my first days with Anytype.
I really see it as one of the major flaws in the concept that it doesn’t work this way and that we don’t have these backlinks that lead us from an image to the Pages and Notes that use it.

From my point of view, it’s again a wrong priority that the team works on the TOC these days, instead of the much more important backlinks for images! – But that’s of course only my personal opinion, although I think I’m not alone with this point of view.
A good TOC is a “nice to hace”, surely.
But missing backlinks for images is more like a missing tooth wheel in a mechanical clock. The clock simply can’t do its job!

11

@Code-Jack
You really have your own unique perspective. You’re asking for a feature for backlinks for images. For an admin of a website’s content management system, this would actually give some useful insights (where an image is used), but for a note-taking app like Anytype - which is what it still is — it’s pretty irrelevant as long as there is no full-blown rights management for users. As long as each member can do everything, it’s much better that it’s not too easy to delete media files.

From the “front end” (=Anytype app) perspective, an image is not an image “per se” but rather a representation of a file of the type “image”, which can be an embed, a link, or a text representing the link.
The most important thing in my opinion is to avoid accidentally deleting original files as much as possible.

Btw, if an image is used 500 times within a space, why would I want to know about all 500 instances? What good would that do me?

12

The “anything” app … that can do everything … is still a note-taking app.
– But even if: Fo me it belongs to note-taking.
In study, I write my notes and later add the relevant images to them.
Later, I want to use a Query for images to learn the stuff. In this Query, I see the Images, as well as their names and maybe Tags etc.
But If I want to see more information, what’s written about the thing I see on an image, I simply can’t find what’s written about it!

– What’s that for a note-taking app???
Do you want to tell me it’s normal for a note-taking app that I’m not able to find my own notes that I once wrote about that image that I see before my nose?

I could not even use search if it was forgotten to give the image a meaningful name.
If I can’t remember what it shows (that happens often, for skin illnesses and for herbs and for mushrooms, etc.!) I have simply no chance to find out something about it.

And one argument more (for you!):
Because I can not know if Pages use the image that I have before my nose, I’m not even able to decide if I can delete it or not.
What now?
I have lots of images in my Space that I can’t remember. I would love to take the Query for images and clean up that stuff!
But I can’t! Because I can never know if a specific image is still in use somewhere.
In the result, I have a lot garbage in my Space AND (in some cases) it may happen that I delete some images that I confuse as trash although they are in good use!

So, I think your following argument is disproved:

.

Also your next argument is … ahem …

How many images do you have, that have 500 backlinks to Pages or Notes?
– Zero? Same for me!

How many images do you have, that have 50 backlinks to Pages or Notes?
– Zero? Same for me!

How many images do you have, that have 5 backlinks to Pages or Notes?
– Zero? Same for me! – But it may happen in rare cases.

And what if a Page or Note has “500” Links (incoming or outgoing)?
– This is much more likely than for an image! A collection can have hundreds of Links to the Objects in it.
And now? Would you give up Links because of that, because you could have Collections or Objects with “500” Links?
Or was it never a problem?

13

I don’t want to argue against your feature request, it’s definitely a nice thing to have, but I just think that this feature may fit your use case well and may not be the top priority need for most other users. The number of votes and comments on a feature request usually give a pretty good picture of this.

I don’t think it makes sense to compare this to the request for a table of contents, as this is a very basic feature nowadays that makes everyday work with a note-taking app a lot easier.

As said, backlinks for images are a nice to have in my opinion. Ultimately, it always comes down to how the Anytype team assesses it.

Anyway, that’s actually off topic with regard to this thread about the request to be able to permanently delete files from a page.

14

I reflect that (with a bit disturbion):
I don’t want to argue against the TOC-request … although … it’s definitely no more then a “nice to have”.
– Why do I think so?

  1. A TOC is handy if a Page is so large that you need to scroll in it. Below this size, it’s useless to have a TOC.
    I would say, 50% of all Pages or Notes are that big. But:
  2. We have had all the time a (simple) TOC!
    Yes, it is a bit simple and also a bit cumbersome to work with it, because it is inside the documents, not in a side panel.
    But that’s all – it’s a bit cumbersome, yes, but “it exists”. And it works.

A better TOC is useful for nearly everyone, no doubt. But it’s possible to live without it and nevetheless to get the daily things done.

The missing backlinks for images on the other hand, are more like a missing tire on the car wheel.
– You have a real problem!
And there is no workaround; you simply can’t do what’s expected.

You can put a bunch images into Anytype. each day, and write your notes about them.
Later, you can view your images in the Query. Fine. But you will never be able to find that notes that belong to the images! :-/

This is so ultimate basic, that I can’t understand why someone could deny the importance!

.

I can only guess the reason why the number of votes sometimes (often!) differs from the expectation. In the case, it may be because the users think, that this request would already “nearby” fulfill the thing with the image backlinks.
But maybe I’m wrong.

I know, everyone, me included, views through his own glasses into the world. No one exclusively owns “the truth”.
But even if I try to put my glasses down, it doesn’t change very much what I see:

  1. It IS possible wo work with the old TOC. A bit cumbersome, but possible.
  2. It is NOT possible to store images with notes.
    – OK that wasn’t true, you ARE able to store them … but it’s then like a “write only memory” :wink:
    Put things in, but never get them out.

For a “note-taking app” an extremely unexpected behavior, isn’t it?

.

It is related, as I’ve explained in my post that answered to this statement from you:

The backlinks would (or could) make it totally clear, if other Objects use a specific image.
But, unfortunately, we don’t have them!
– Although I would call it a basic feature, we haven’t these backlinks. And as you now see, this affects even other functions, like the one this thread is about.

15

It is possible to give images properties of numerous kinds, as many as you want. You can work with images in collections and in queries, you can use them in objects of any kind, you can actually do whatever one can think of in Anytype - and you insist that it is absolutely essential to know in which objects a particular image is used?

May I ask what you actually do with images that none of the available options are suitable for you?

16

Dear @VisualNotes , I don’‘t want to offend you – you’'re one of my most appreciated fellows here and I normally enjoy every post from you.
But at the moment, I’m no longer sure if you pretend to be stupid to make some fun with me???

– Mmmm, I don’t believe that this suspicion is true … OK, I try again to explain the obvious:

  1. Let’s assume, I write a long Page with the title:
    “Herbs against coughs”
  2. In the following weeks I do my research and write more and more text into that Page. I also add images. Not all at once, but during the weeks one here one there.
  3. Of course, I have some more of such Pages about herbs:
    Herbs against high blood pressure
    Herbs for your gut health
    Herbs against worms
    … and so on and so on.
  4. All these Pages (aka “notes”) contain images of the corresponding herbs.
  5. Sometimes I find better images of a specific herb, therefore I replace some of the images in the Pages. (But as we know, they don’t become deleted, therefore we have now garbage in our Space!).

Unfortunately, I have forgotten to give each image a unique name. (to do that is unnecessary cumbersome btw. and there ist a request to make it simpler).
Therefore, I now have a lot images in my Space, that have the name “image”. :-/
Some of them are even garbage (old versions), but which of them?

Now comes the moment when I want to learn about the herbs. How to identify them, what’s their name (in German, in English, in Latin) and much information more.
– This shouldn’t be a problem, because I’ve written long texts …
I look into my Query for images, in Gallery View.
Wonderful! I see all these images, very good!
Not so good: lots of them have the name “image” …
Of course I can’t identify many herbs from looking on the image. And there is no name …
OK, I go into the Flow to see the backlink to find the Page that has included this image, there I will find a lot information about this specific herb!

– But … there is no backlink. :frowning:
I simply can’t find the Page that belongs to that image. And there are many many dozens of images that I can’t recognize, that often don#t have a meaningful name and that may doublets. Or older or newer versions (I replaced some images with better versions).

All this is not only fantasy, I really have this problem!
I have this problem in two different Spaces, one of them is even shared.
In the shared Space, it could even happen, that one of my colleagues puts in some more images or texts, only half knowing what he/she does.

Our plan was, to use Anytype for our study. To make notes, to share information as transcripts of images or PDFs.
All this is possible. But there is one major thing missing to make it really useful. and it is at the same time fatal that it is missing and also ridiculous, because it is such a basic feature for an app that is able to link files and information together.
Yeah, the links that lead from the images to the Pages aka Notes are missing. :frowning:
If this function isn’t there, then there is simply no replacement, no workaround – we simply can’t use Anytype in our study group as intended. :frowning:

17

Thank you for describing your use case. So this feature is not intended for archiving or knowledge management, but for troubleshooting. I now understand why you are missing this feature.

Nevertheless, I would ask you not to assume that everyone sees things from your perspective. I simply didn’t know how you work, so how could I?

In any case, it’s not very friendly to accuse me of playing dumb or making fun of you. Since one can assume that neither is the case, the only other possibility is that I’m simply too stupid to understand you.

18

It is for everything!!?!!
For daily use, for note taking, for study, etc. etc (and I don’t know what you mean with “troubleshooting”?)

My example was from different angles.
I already have posted examples (with screenshots!) from my study in other treads that you have answered. So I assume you remember. These screenshots showed mostly skin illnesses.
My actual example was for herbs, to give you another perspective.
But I also use it for mushrooms …
… and technical stuff …
… and for so much more!

I’m often not able to identify a mushroom from an image. And if that image doesn’t have a meaningful name, I can’t find the pages that give me more information, because there are noch backlinks.

Same for mechanisms.
I have images about different straight-line-mechanisms etc.
Sometimes I look into my query for images, looking for a mechanism that could mechanically fit into my construction. But is the thing that I see on an image really a true-straight-line-mechanism? Or is it only a nearly-straight-line-mechanism?
– I have no clue. Therefore I need to read about it. But how?

This problem comes again and again, every day in many situations. I simply use the query for images often - or I WOULD use it often, if the thing would be as useful as it could be - and really should be!

In study I even gave up trying to convince my colleagues from Anytype. :frowning:
My first presentation was a disaster anyway, because of the snail speed issue that I’ve reported (and is solved meanwhile). But then there is still the unacceptable obstacle with not having backlinks.
– It’s like a bad joke! I’m too embarrassed to show something like that to my colleagues.
I mean, what’s the use to have something like a “database” for images, where you see them, but you’re not able to find the information that belong to them?

On top of that, one can not even know if an image is garbage (not used) or still in use by Pages.

As said, I’ve explained it in other threads more then once, and I even posted screenshots.
And there was some discussion with you.
That’s one of the two reasons why I wrote that I’m not sure if you pretend to be stupid to make some fun with me. You must have seen my posts and remember the screenshot - these ugly skin illnesses are not easy to forget!
The other reason why I wrote that, is that I still think that everyone who uses Anytype regular must know about this problem and suffer from it. I can’t imagine how anyone who really uses the app doesn’t suffer from that.

– And no, that’s not only my personal perspective.
It became ridiculous when we discussed the problems with deleting an image from a Page. There you have the problem direct before your nose - wen can’t be sure if an image is still in use by another Page!
– That’s the problem, man! – Or ONE of the problems! Direct before your nose, impossible to oversee!
Nevertheless, you still pretended not to see the prob … :-/

As I wrote, I didn’t want to offend you, (and I repeat) you’re one of my most appreciated colleagues!
But I really wasn’t sure if you pretend …
– If not, then sorry! But then I need to shake my head, because then … (sorry!).
This whole thread is connected to the problem – even more then the threadstarter has had in mind. And it was you who came with the problem that a file could be used somewhere else. And it was your post why I pointed on the problem (no backlinks) and the solution (backlinks).
So, how could you ask such a question like the one below, after all this pre-story?:

But enough for now.
Maybe you was tired, I’m also tired sometimes but still in the forum. And under such conditions we humans may oversee the obvious, or get things wrong, etc.
Here’s a nice flower for you. Life is more then writing posts in a forum, it’s summer!
Peace & love!
:sunflower:

19

thanks for you explanation, :laughing: the point is there is no way to handle those images and files.
And can’t agree withyou, we definitely need a way to manage those isolate image and files. other wise you vault will have too many useless file over time.
what we want here is not a “delete” and “remove” in menu, but a way to let user to handle the vault precisely and clearly

20

Guys, this is my last post. I appreciate the information you share here, but I find the “how” I experienced in this thread to be disrespectful and inappropriate.

I don’t want to waste my time in a forum where there are people who belittle others in a verbose and arrogant manner.

You can disagree with others, but you should maintain a certain level of respect for other people’s opinions, which is common internationally. You should reconsider your behavior.

In any case, I’m out of here. I will still create bug reports occasionally if necessary, but I will no longer participate in any discussions.

21

I think it’s a language barrier? I’m not here to argue too but sure hope u guys can sort this out. Anyway keep the :lady_beetle: coming lmfao. Anytype really needs more stability.