Change the name of Relations to something else

At the end of the day, this topic is impossible to balance because the team faces two options. They could do the right thing by naming and implementing features correctly (currently they are naming things somewhat correctly with plans to improve implementation), but this makes average users confused and complicates onboarding.

Alternatively, they could use technically incorrect but intuitive naming that appeals to the general public. While the more “hardcore” userbase will complain, this simplification of terminology may be needed to attract a larger audience.
Eg. how Notion names their “Databases,” which are actually filtered views of database entries belonging to a user. Is it technically accurate? No. Do users like it? Absolutely.

I hope the Anytype team finds a balance, even if I generally am in favor of naming things technically incorrectly if it makes intuitive sense to the general public (arguably because I am closer to that side of the users :D).

Just want to add my +1 to this sentiment…

I love the term relations. As someone who’s part of the general public, it’s the simple terms that made Anytype more approachable to me than its competitors. What’s confusing to me is when people discuss the exact definition of properties, IDs, values, etc. Too many terms to differentiate and memorize as a regular user. :sweat_smile: I know there are some technicalities in there, but to be honest, I understand it just fine when the app says the word Relation encompasses all those uses.

I’m not active in the community lately, but I will occasionally read posts after seeing an update, and sometimes I just shake my head at the back and forth with some of the features. (Off-topic, but looking at you, back and forward nav buttons) I feel like this is only adding more division between community members, and it would do more good to make progress on other pressing features than nitpick on a terminology because people have been loud about it recently.

Not saying things that aren’t working can’t be corrected, but unless you’re doing a major upgrade with the way relations work that would require updated terminologies, (and are 100% sure with the new wording,) I say leave relations and the other terms alone.

If it’s really bothering more than half of its userbase, I think a ‘mass update’ and evaluation with the terms can be done before or after the app goes out of beta, but not now when so many features are still in progress. I fear that this will only turn into another feature change where users will complain that they want it back afterwards.

I apologize if this turned into a mini rant. This goes without saying that this is just my opinion. So many programmers here that I don’t expect to agree with me, but I wanted to get this out there to offer my perspective as a long-time user and a non-developer. I don’t take notes of technical terms and what competing apps use; I only paid attention to Anytype’s onboarding and did not find the choice of terms confusing at all. :slightly_smiling_face:

@Kerstie You describe my standpoint more accurately than myself :wink::clinking_glasses:Changing for the sake of changing wouldn’t make the outcome better, and I don’t want to waste our valuable team’s efforts.

I am generally okay with changes; changing with structural reason will ease the transition. However, as a tester, I sometimes wonder what direction is Anytype bringing us towards, in terms of note-taking and note-sharing.

  • While p2p and encryption are the backbone to Anytype’s operation, this is a background feature which users could forget. We probably also need a rationale to support the note-taking part as well.
  • For me, relation was the one thing Anytype could do but not other note-taking app. Relation is the richness of the connection and Anytype had empowered me to think with more thickness and perspectives. So I am really passionate about relation; and this passion might have shocked when I see that it might change.

In short, name might just be a name, but it is also the direction we are moving towards. May Anytype find its own way throughout all these concepts.

P.S. Topics like this might be a good tester for karma system - how are we as community and collective owner manage conflictual interests, and everyone could ideally be happy about the outcome.

This is a good point that I have not thought of but sincerely relate. My pkm (and Graph, by extension) is so much richer and interactive because the term Relations encouraged me to build connections and fill in relevant (related) data wherever possible. Sure, a Graph with an ability to connect docs can be present in any app, but if not for the word relation, I would not bother planning and studying how each doc/file/object is connected or defining of one another. I imagine if it was in another app, I’d see a “Property” or an “Attribute” written and I’d just ignore the field thinking I’m not familiar with what it does or maybe I am, but don’t feel like I’m technical enough to bother with all those linking that I can possibly make. But here in Anytype, with a “technically incorrect but intuitive” word (as @ferdzso puts it), I was inspired to build a second brain that reflects my thought process more than just linking documents because the app can technically do it.

Even for those ‘relationships’ that don’t show in Graph (ex: location, number, tags…), the term encourages you to fill out important data (and consider where or how you can reuse it) that you can otherwise just write in text. There’s just something empowering with the choice of word and the simplification of the feature.

So in that context, I’d say that Relations is as much of a backbone of Anytype as its p2p and encryption capabilities.

I think, for newcomers, developers, and seasoned pkm users, it’s perfectly normal to feel like it’s introducing a made up term/feature (it kinda is), and think, “this isn’t right. We could use another/a more accurate word for its specific uses”. But for people who have settled in, it’s not just a word choice, it’s a building tool that founded our entire knowledge space. It signifies every notable data that I can put out there. It’s not that hard to grasp.

Okay, this might be coming partly out of emotional attachment, but I still feel like changing it — or worse, dividing it into very specific functions — totally kills the charm and innovation of that app feature. I may be convinced if the team is finally adding more complexity to Relations that would somehow require a new term, but I can’t see how adding scope or hierarchy would make that necessary.


Whatever happened to this proposal?! I thought this was supposed to monitor, encourage, and reward contributions, leading to the hastening of progress and development. There’s only been silence regarding this topic. :laughing:

Yes! The way you put this is exactly what I would describe as the flexibility of reusing concept through relation. As we switch the actor or subject of action/concept (aka change the relator and relatee, but keep the logic and relation), we are able to grab and manifest different understanding.

In Anytype, relation is my cognitive playground. I truly like relation!! (but I will keep it low after this post)


On karma system, yes no new information so far. I only imagine that it might need to work with this type of situation as more contributions = more say, and still newcomers will have decent treatments.

When it comes to principles and execution, I don’t know how forces should and could be counted - quality and quantity…

  • In case of relation, (new) users from other apps might lean towards properties and attributes. This is a big pool of people that Anytype would probably want to attract…
  • And loyalty or time spent with Anytype also matters🤷‍♀️. Assuming emotion attachment with relation for older users, their accumulated positive karma gets them the reward of keeping relation? Or in contrary, they get rewarded by taking away what they are used to?

P.S. I am not a believer of those religions with karma concept, so I have no idea how that makes sense.

For what it’s worth, this discussion made me realize how their simple terminologies influenced the way I process and navigate information in their app. Learning and applying relations to your workflow is their unique onboarding experience, in my opinion. It’s part if their brand.


Having a say based on karma points sounds nice, though I doubt they’d let a select number of people keep it while everyone else gets an update. It was already mentioned here that there are inconsistencies in translation, customizing “relation” might complicate that further.

Well, we signed up for the risk of a disrupted workflow when we joined alpha/beta testing. :sweat_smile: I can only hope that they consider our POV alongside the ones voting for name change. (If we’re silent, it’s because it’s working for us. :grin:)

:smile:
There was no point in giving my opinion in giving my opinion, just so I don’t remain silent.

I think I had already argued in another river topic about this naming, and I was in favor of a more understandable change for newcomers.
In practice, I don’t care, I’m impressed by the length of the debate on a simple naming (even if I understand your passion :wink:).

Well, as a reminder, I use Anytype a lot, but only for testing/debugging.
I’m waiting for certain functionalities to really use it for me, so for the time being, they can break everything if it makes things better.
But I must be an exception :grin:.

LOL. I guess the Planning tag triggered the need to share my thoughts regarding the topic.

I’ve noticed a couple of updates over my time here where they say it was a result of feedback, but once the change is made, majority of the reactions indicate that they still prefer the old one. I went ahead and commented while it’s still in progress. :joy:

I didn’t expect to be so passionate about relations either. :rofl:

it looks like we’re heading for the name “Field” :wink:.
(but it’s under development, it may change)